Meet­ing Ayn Rand

ARI

Charles, when did you meet Ayn Rand?

CHARLES

February 1960, in New York City. Branden was giv­ing lec­tures on Ob­jec­tiv­ism, and I knew that she came for the ques­tion period to answer ques­tions. At the end of the even­ing, I went up to the podium, and I introduced myself. But we didn’t have a conversa­tion. Some of her friends were there. They were go­ing out for coffee, and I was invited along. The next thing I knew, I was walk­ing down the street and talk­ing with Ayn Rand.

ARI

How did it happen that you were walk­ing with her?

CHARLES

As we were leav­ing, peo­ple broke up into couples, and I saw that she was walk­ing with Frank. There was this whole side of Ayn Rand unoccupied, and so I hurried over to fill the gap.

ARI

What do you remember of that meet­ing?

CHARLES

I remember that what happened surprised me. I was glow­ing inward­ly at my good fortune. At most, I had expected to introduce myself that even­ing, maybe have a brief conversa­tion, and then leave. But, there I was, walk­ing with her! I was think­ing of what to say. But she took over, and began the conversa­tion. I thought she would want to talk about the lec­ture or some aspect of the phi­los­o­phy. But no, she was interested in me—who I was, what I did for a liv­ing. When I told her that I was an attorney and had come from Wash­ing­ton, D.C., to hear her, she smiled and said it was a compliment to her that I had come “so far,” and it in­di­ca­ted a serious interest in ideas. She wanted to know what aspect of the law I specialized in and what I enjoyed about my work. It was the focus on me that I hadn’t expected. You would have thought that I was the celebrity.

ARI

What were your impressions of her?

CHARLES

In manner, she was a very gracious lady. I would say she was friendly, but not familiar.

ARI

Would you say she was formal?

CHARLES

No, formal is too strong a word. I’d characterize it as more of a cordial reserve. There was a respect­ful distance, but there was also civility and an attitude of good will. I believed that she was genuine­ly interested in me. Frank was that way, too.

I don’t remember what else we talked about. At one point, she was speak­ing and we were about to cross a street. She started to step off the curb—without look­ing. I took her arm to stop her and she looked up at me; she seemed a little surprised. But I had the impression she approved of the protective gesture. I also remember that she went right on speak­ing to make her point, as if there hadn’t been an interrup­tion. That, I learned, was typical of her: noth­ing distracted her; she never lost her train of thought. She never paused to say things like “What were we talk­ing about?” or “Where was I?” She always knew.

ARI

Did you see her after that?

CHARLES

I saw her whenever I could. I traveled to where she was speak­ing—Philadelphia, Boston, New York. In fact, she was there when I met Mary Ann. In 1962 Ayn gave a lec­ture at Hunter Col­lege where Mary Ann was teach­ing. I knew who Mary Ann was, but she didn’t know me. After the lec­ture, I followed Ayn and her friends into an elevator, and Mary Ann and I were introduced. But I didn’t get to know Ayn on a personal basis until I started to date Mary Ann the follow­ing year and went to social gatherings at­tended by Ayn and Frank. That was real­ly the beginn­ing of my rela­tionship with Ayn.

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